Normalizing Sobriety: Leigh’s Alcohol-Free Lifestyle & the Birth of @Macrosnmocktails

Meet Leigh of @macrosnmocktails, a first-class female on a mission to normalize sobriety by bravely sharing her life as a sober mom one post at a time.

Join host Jessica Stipanovic as she sits down with Leigh to listen to her sobriety story and wildfire connection with a community that helps her remain accountable and inspires others to believe in the promise of sobriety. From her father's sudden passing to her decision in 2017 to pursue an alcohol-free life, Leigh discussed using alcohol as a coping mechanism for her grief, the red flags she ignored, and the moment she knew a change was necessary.

Leigh launched @macrosnmocktails in June 2023 and her desire to be alcohol-free turned into a passion to normalize sobriety by helping followers believe in the possibility of a sober life. She vulnerably shares her past struggles and newfound solutions about alcoholism with heartfelt compassion and a touch of humor.  Leigh became sober curious in 2017, and it took her 6 years for sobriety to finally stick. She claims she didn't have a rock bottom, but plenty of rocky moments that served as red flags that led her to the belief that drinking was no longer an option.  Her transparent storytelling on social media has helped her shed shame and has encouraged others to begin their sobriety journeys.

Finally, we challenge the stigma surrounding sobriety, highlighting the misconception that alcohol addiction is a personal failing. Leigh’s mantra, "drinking is not an option," resonates throughout our conversation, illustrating the profound impact of her commitment to an alcohol-free life. We discuss how sobriety has enriched her parenting, enhanced self-trust, and improved family dynamics, all while providing a blueprint for others to follow.

Tune in to be inspired by Leigh’s story and discover the power and promise of living an alcohol-free life.

To connect with Leigh during the week: Leigh | Alcohol-Free Living | Sober Mom (@macrosnmocktails) • Instagram photos and videos

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Today, I have the great pleasure to sit down with a woman who has a passion to normalize sobriety and help people believe in the possibility of a sober life. Meet Leigh from the Instagram account Macros and Mocktails, an account that was launched in June of 2023. Leigh started to vulnerably share about her struggle with alcohol, empathetically and with humor. Today, almost a year later, she has over 33,000 followers who sign in on a daily basis to get insights on how to live sober. Lee became sober curious in 2017, and it took her six years and hundreds of day ones for sobriety to finally stick. She claimed she didn't have a rock bottom, but plenty of rocky moments that served as red flags. Her motto is drinking is not an option. Lee spent her professional career in public relations and currently manages social media for three women own wellness brands. She resides in Portland, oregon, with her husband and three teenage sons. Lean in today to hear how she began her journey publicly for year one in sobriety and how it took hold and kept her accountable as she learned how to walk her new way.

Speaker 1: 1:18

Welcome to the Sober Living Stories podcast. This podcast is dedicated to sharing stories of sobriety. We shine a spotlight on individuals who have faced the challenges of alcoholism and addiction and are today living out their best lives sober. Each guest has experienced incredible transformation and are here to share their story with you. I'm Jessica Stepanovic, your host. Join me each week as guests from all walks of life share their stories to inspire and provide hope to those who need it most.

Speaker 2: 2:07

Good morning, I'm happy to be here.

Speaker 1: 2:08

Your passion for normalizing sobriety and an alcohol-free lifestyle is to be commended. It's something that I don't think anyone should be ashamed of, but so often are, and you're helping to kind of break that stereotype. So I'm happy to have you here today If you wouldn't mind just sharing your personal story as far back as you'd like to go, just taking us up to the present day.

Speaker 2: 2:33

Yeah, sure, thank you, and I appreciate your comment on the vulnerability piece of my content, because in the beginning I played it safe, played it safer and it was reaching people, but not to the level of really sharing my personal stories did, because I think we all need to see ourselves in someone else's story, we need to feel less alone on this journey, we need to relate to other people, we need to know we're not the only one, and so that's really what sparked the vulnerable sharing and, as I told you before, you know we hit record. I think the more that I share, really, the more shame I release around this whole journey. So it helps me to help other people. You know people say thank you, you know you've been such a help and it's like, well, what I, what I'm giving, I get back, you know, tenfold. So it's, it's really, it's really amazing this whole journey and, like you said, this is, I'm relatively new to being sober, you know, still, I think you know, the first year is still new sobriety. I consider myself newly sober, but it's really been a journey that started back in 2017.

Speaker 2: 4:00

My dad passed in 2014. I was with him when he passed away. It was very unexpected and I think there was a noticeable shift at that point in my drinking and I would say I drank normally if there is such a thing as normal drinking, drinking really up until that point I would have a bottle of wine over the course of three nights, you know, one large glass. Um, for the most part, especially when my kids were younger sometimes, you know not I wouldn't drink at all because I had three kids, three and under, and that lifestyle doesn't lend to drinking. Really, it wasn't until they were toddlers and moving around a bit and on a more consistent sleep schedule, and then my dad passed away and I think it was just a perfect storm of I was drinking to cope with grief. And so in 2017, there were a few moments where I had blacked out. I had said things to my kids that I shouldn't have said. They remembered. The next day, you know, my oldest son told me I was drunk, and so you know things you don't want to hear from your kids, right? And so in 2017, that's when I'm like I I found the book by Sarah Heppler called Blackout.

Speaker 2: 5:35

I don't know, I don't know how I stumbled across it. Amazing read, didn't want to be done with it. I remember I was reading it over Labor Day weekend poolside and on the way home. We were on a trip and on the way home from that trip, I told my whole family. I said I'm going to take I told them I was going to take a 50 day break from alcohol.

Speaker 2: 5:56

You know that this was negatively impacting my life, negatively impacting our lives. I recognized it, I was going to take a break and but in my head I was I committed to a hundred days. That's what I told myself. I'm like I'm telling my family I'm going to do 50 days, I'm really going to do a hundred days. And I went. I think I went 75 days. Um, and this was after I had taken several 30 day breaks. I did my dad passed away in May of 2014. I did a whole 30 in July of 2014, because even then, it's like I'm drinking too much, I'm eating too much, I'm I'm not coping with grief in a way that's healthy. Um, and so I'd done several whole 30. So I had these 30-day breaks, but that was like a longer, 75-day break in 2017.

Speaker 2: 6:53

And then I went back thinking I don't know exactly what I thought. I thought that I might be healed. I thought that I might be able to control it. And every time I went back to alcohol, it always, it always ended up the same, because alcohol doesn't change. Sure, my relationship with alcohol never got better than it was the moment I recognized it was no longer serving me. It only got worse. But, god did I try to hang on to alcohol and keep it in my life, and I'm trying to remember the timeline of my significant breaks. I think anything over three months to me is a significant break.

Speaker 2: 7:38

So in 2020, that was when we were all home and in lockdown and I live in Oregon and we were especially locked down compared to the rest of the country and I started buying wine by the box and we have a refrigerator in our garage and I would keep my boxed wine down there and it started out at five o'clock. I'd go down and fill my glass and it was getting earlier and earlier the longer we were in lockdown, to the point that it was two o'clock and I was going down there and just huge pours, huge pours. I thought that a box was three bottles, I think it was four Something. I had it off by a bottle and I'm like, holy shit, I'm drinking a lot of wine right now and that's when I decided to do the path through this naked mind. And I was really familiar with this naked mind, annie Grace. She's really a thought leader in this space. She wrote Control Alcohol. I read that book two times. I listened to it on audiobook. She has a podcast she does. She has a free alcohol experiment.

Speaker 2: 9:01

I did the live alcohol experiment twice in January, which is like a 30 day. There's daily coaching, all of that. So I decided I was going to pay and do this year long program through this naked mind and I met some amazing people. We're still friends today. We're still on a text string. I stuck with that program for four months. I didn't drink. I thought I was healed, thought I was, you know, totally done with alcohol.

Speaker 2: 9:36

And then, whenever things started opening up and we made our re-entry to society, I just wasn't prepared for that, to be around people, for the socialization. It was easy to do at home with my family, but once we started going out and social gatherings and part of it was really celebratory too I mean, there's always an excuse to drink, but really a celebration. Things are opening back up. Oh, we're not going to have to wear masks the rest of our lives, all those things. That's when you know, I started drinking again.

Speaker 2: 10:17

And I think, once you know, once there's that awareness there, awareness there that that you, there's an issue with alcohol, you really, I really could never drink with just disregard and abandonment. It was always in the back of my mind how much am I going to drink? How am I going to not get drunk? You know, am I? Am I going to drink tonight? How much is I am I going to drink? I wrote about this Do I have enough alcohol? Do I have too much alcohol? Those thoughts just consumed me. I didn't want to get drunk in front of my kids, but I didn't want to give up alcohol. And it was just such, um, I was just in such war within myself. It was just such, I was just in such war within myself. And so then, that was in 2020, started drinking again in January 2021. Had some more breaks in between.

Speaker 2: 11:17

In September of 2022, I joined the path again. The path had evolved from a year-long program to a 90-day program. That's where I met Shannon at Mommy Does Not Need Wine, who's been really pivotal in my journey. Her friendship has meant the world to me and we've stayed in communication and I say she graduated and stayed sober. I dropped out. I didn't drop out, I finished the program but I started drinking again. I mean, I didn't drop out, I finished the program but I started drinking again, like I mean, this is just ridiculous, right it's so crazy to hear me tell this story of how many starts and stops there were.

Speaker 2: 11:57

If I heard somebody else saying what I'm saying, you're like God. How could you not figure that out? How could you not figure out it was never going to. You know, relationship with alcohol was never going to change.

Speaker 1: 12:10

So what brought you to the actual stop? How do you?

Speaker 2: 12:14

know you don't do it anymore. I was so sick and tired of being sick and tired I realized it was. It was never going to get better, it was only going to get worse. And the more I tried to control it, the more alcohol controlled me, because it was all in my head. You know, I was thinking about it nonstop. If I wasn't thinking about when I was going to drinking drink, I was thinking about when I was going to quit drinking and stop drinking and yeah, so let's, let's, let's just pause for a second.

Speaker 1: 12:44

There's so much, so much good that you said why do we go to it in the first place? You know everybody's different, but coping is such a bit. You know, you used it to cope with grief or to cope with. You know people use it for social anxiety or depression, or not only thinking that it's the solution, when in fact it becomes the problem, and just how the mental exhaustion of trying to figure that out and control it and enjoy it at the same time, which is literally impossible. And then what that brings us to and I hope you speak to this later on is to the absolute freedom when we decide to put it down for good. And so you really articulated that really well. So, like 21.

Speaker 2: 13:31

Yeah, so in the three month program in 2022, I was following Shannon because she and I were friends and she had this sober Instagram account and I was really appalled by some of the things she shared, like her, her, you know.

Speaker 2: 13:48

Going back to her vulnerability and what she shared. And I remember reaching out to her and I asked you know, do your real life friends follow you? Do you know? Do they know? Do they see what you're posting? And she was just like I don't, they might, or they might not, they don't say a whole lot, but she's like I don't really care, like it's not about them. You know, this was about her and her journey and her relationship with her family and her daughters and all of that, and I really admired that and I really related to her story through her posts and she was really instrumental in helping me believe that, in the possibility of a sober life, and I think that I want everybody to believe in the possibility of a sober life and that a sober life is better than struggling every day and trying to make alcohol fit into your life.

Speaker 1: 14:49

Yeah, and so in 2023,.

Speaker 2: 14:55

I found a faster way, which is this at home workout, fat loss, nutrition, blah, blah, blah. And and it's really what I needed my perimenopausal body at the time needed and love these workouts. I got laid off in June of last year I think I found out in May of my communications job that I had had for eight years and I loved and I was trying to find out, figure out what next steps were. Love this program, got certified as a fat loss and nutrition coach. Through this program, it was always in the back of my head I have to get sober, I have to quit drinking, and this was really the first program I've done. That discourages alcohol. Okay, it says like alcohol should really not be a part of your health journey, you know, but if you drink, here's how you count macros. But it's a piece of it like education around alcohol and why it's not good, especially for midlife fat loss efforts, and so that resonated with me. So I decided I was going to be certified to be a fat loss, weight loss, nutrition coach for midlife sober and sober curious women. That was going to be my niche, cause they say you know, you need a niche. There's all these coaches out there and you know a dime, a dozen. Some are really really great, don't get me wrong, but it's, there's a lot of us out there. And so what's your niche? And so I'm like my niche is going to be sober and sober, curious women. So I called Shannon. This is what I'm thinking. What do you think? You know she's like go for it. Yeah, absolutely, I love it. I'll support you however I can. And so I'm like I'm going to start an Instagram account.

Speaker 2: 16:50

I started this Instagram account like the name of it, the whole platform I was following people before I was even sober, and I started it a week into my sobriety and what I found was the sober content was resonating with people. I was having trouble with working out and doing video workouts and all of that with working out and doing video workouts and all of that. And so I stuck with the sober content. And here I am, almost a year later.

Speaker 2: 17:20

It's like I put it out there like I believed it before I actually believed it, and it provided a layer of accountability that I can't let these people down. You know they're going to be sober, they're relying on my content, but it really has been. It's helped me way more than it's helped other people, I think, and now I'm the one that shares all the people are so kind when I'm like, oh, thank my cringy content. They're like it's not cringy, it's helpful. But I do put a lot of vulnerable details out there. And now I'm doing it, and it's been so freeing in so many ways, not only sharing my story but giving up alcohol and it's just. I can't believe how much my life has changed in less than a year.

Speaker 1: 18:16

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Speaker 1: 19:14

Now back to our guest. Perfectly said you know the freedom, the freeing part. You know it's like when you put something out there and people don't run away but they run toward you. It gives you like evidence that hey, this is okay. So I think that's one of the hardest things for people I know it is for me to openly speak about your life and the hard parts, the parts that you have behind closed doors, and you know that's the.

Speaker 1: 19:49

That's the part that people want to hear, because that's the part that we need to all feel like, wow, we're all just human. Like, since I launched this podcast, like I can't walk into, there's no room I'll walk into where I know that every single person in that room has had something significant happen in their life that has been extremely difficult. I just can look at people more like they're. They're human, like everybody is, and with alcohol, there's such a stigma around it. Can you speak to that a little bit on? Like diminishing the stigma? Cause you talk about normalizing sobriety, right, right, I mean, it's common. I think it's way more common than we think.

Speaker 2: 20:32

For sure, for sure. I think it's important to know that everyone is struggling with something and just because alcohol isn't their thing doesn't mean they don't have a thing. We all have things. So knowing that in general is helpful to me in sharing my story, because even if people are judgmental and of course for every hundred nice comments I get I might get one rude comment, maybe not even that many, but I go back to my only response to them is I'm glad alcohol isn't your thing, but I guarantee you have a thing, have a nice day, because we're all battling something.

Speaker 2: 21:20

Sure, and society makes us feel like if we struggle with alcohol that's our fault, when in truth, alcohol is an addictive substance, our struggling with alcohol is not our fault. When in truth, alcohol is an addictive substance, our struggling with alcohol is not our fault, but it is our responsibility. And I think, just knowing that and knowing how many women come into my DMs with so much shame and so much guilt and telling me they're the worst mother and telling me I had someone yesterday who I did a post around midlife women and drinking and feeling alone and struggling with alcohol and she came into my DMs and said that she was commenting there because she said I don't want people to know I'm sober curious, as if that was embarrassing in some regard. And I just, you know, I told her there's no shame in being sober, curious, we're. Alcohol is garbage, it's destructive to our health and our well-being and our mental and emotional wellness, and there's just no shame in choosing not to drink alcohol.

Speaker 1: 22:43

Yeah, yeah, and it's incredible how there is so much shame, but there shouldn't be. So I think what you're doing is breaking that in a way. Um, you know, but breaking free of that. Not just you, but you're helping others do that too, because you're like. They're like, wow, look what she's saying out loud. So how did your account take off? Like, when did you know that? Wow, this is really something that's resonating with women all around the world and I'm going to continue doing it because it's not only helping them, but it's helping me.

Speaker 2: 23:19

I think I had thought in my mind if I was able to help one person, convince one person that sobriety was a better and easier way of life, it would be worth it. And it's been a lot more than one person. And it's the comments that I get on a daily basis and that's really why I keep going and keep sharing, because it's a lot of work. I don't get paid for it. There's no glory in having an Instagram account and I don't want, I'm not looking to monetize it, because people just need a free resource. They need to. You know, they just, they just need relatability, they need support. And you know my husband's like what are you, what are you doing with this account? I'm like I don't know, I don't know, I don't Um, but you know I tell him. I'm like this is like my therapy. This is my accountability.

Speaker 2: 24:22

I feel like it's a ministry at this point and you know I told you prior to this conversation that I really felt called to do this and and I've never felt called to do anything, it was, it was through the faster way, like be a faster way coach. You know, target, target, sober and sober, curious women like, specifically because, um, I, I, you know there's a whole nother conversation around midlife weight gain and health and all of that and how detrimental alcohol is. So it just seemed to go hand in hand. And then I was like, oh my gosh, it's kind of like the bait and hook, like talk about your faster. It's like all I do is talk about my sober piece.

Speaker 2: 25:06

Like I said I just it just feels like like a ministry and but I get so much back to and you know, there's a handful of people who women, who didn't think they could ever get sober that I'm still I'm in regular contact with and I it. It just brings me such joy and my, my motto is drinking is not an option. Anytime somebody DMs me and says that you know I just keep replaying drinking is not an option. Over and over in my head or your words resonated with me or I remember drinking is not an option. It's like I I'm making a small difference. If I have any any impact in someone's decision to consider a sober life, then this is all worth it.

Speaker 1: 26:01

So I think, yeah, that's great and I agree with you, I think you're doing an incredible service, almost, but it's also like what you had said. It's it, it's helping you, it's like almost like therapy. It's like, yeah, you know, so what would you? I think one of the things that caught me, um, like drew me to your account, was I was like, wow, she's speaking to moms, you know, and it's like I think of, I think that is in itself of like moms, of elementary kids.

Speaker 1: 26:32

It's a busy season and you know they talk about mommy, wine, culture and all this other things that I didn't really experience but I've heard about. And that really drew me because I thought, wow, you know, once again she's putting the shame out of that, she's just stepping out into that. So, what would you talk about? How your home has changed since you decided to do this and to be alcohol free? How has that affected your family and you as a mom, or your functioning, or you as a member of the community or whatever? What are the benefits that you've experienced by choosing this lifestyle?

Speaker 2: 27:12

I think there was a significant chunk of time in which my kids didn't trust me because they didn't know which version of me was going to show up. And my oldest son at one time had said you're a really good mom in the day, just not at night. And I mean, I will never forget that. I will never forget those words. Those words alone should have caused me to stop drinking then in that moment, but they didn't. I kept thinking I could control it, that I wouldn't get drunk in front of him anymore, and so I think letting go of alcohol enabled me to have self-trust, to trust myself. I don't know on this journey that I've ever been this confident and I'm not going to drink regardless of what comes my way. Drinking is not an option. And then in turn, my boys trust me, and when I have these conversations, these hard conversations around their recreational use of drugs and I say drugs in general and I include alcohol in that, because alcohol is definitely a drug then it comes with a lot more weight when I'm not drinking than if I were drinking, and I've talked very openly about my struggle with alcohol. I talk about us having addictive tendencies because this is a generation, this has been passed down generationally. I talk about drugs, their impact on mental health and, and it's made everything easier in so many ways. I feel better, I'm more present, I'm a better mom.

Speaker 2: 29:20

I took my twins to a quinceanera party on Saturday night and it was the first time that I said I'm going to go to the bar and get a drink, I'll be back. And that was the first time they didn't ask are'm going to go to the bar and get a drink, I'll be back. And that was the first time they didn't ask are you going to get alcohol? Because they know I'm not at this point, but I think it's taken this long because I've done, because of all the other stints I had done like longer stints. I think they weren't sure like, is it going to stick this time? Is it not going to even at?

Speaker 2: 29:54

I think I was almost eight months sober and I was. I was hosting oh, I think I was hosting bunco something and I was serving wine and I was getting out the wine we have. We have this wine cellar. People like why don't you just get rid of it? I'm like, I know I I to my husband has since boxed it all up and now it's sitting in our living room and I need to figure out what I'm going to do with all of this wine, um, but you know, I was. I was getting all this stuff ready and my son was like are people going to be partying tonight? I'm like, well, some, probably. And then he's like are you going to be partying tonight? You know, I'm like, no, you know, not today, not today, um, but that was even eight months, so it's it's. I think finally now they know like I'm serious about this. They know all about my Instagram account. My 17 year old is just. You know, loves like. How many followers do you have? You know he designs clothes. He's like do you want me to?

Speaker 2: 30:57

create some merch like, oh my god, killing me. Yeah, I know it's so funny, they're so funny, um, but it's made everything easier and better and brighter. And I don't wake up every day just laden with shame, guilt and wondering if you know, it was always. I'm not going to drink tonight. I'm today's the day I'm not going to drink tonight. And then I listened to the Rachel Hart podcast on the way home from dropping my kids off from school and then by two o'clock, I was rationalizing a glass of wine. Just tonight, it's tonight, I'll start tomorrow. By five o'clock, I was opening a bottle every single day. It just, it never changed. It was the same thing day in, day out.

Speaker 1: 31:46

Yeah, you said something really important. It's like when you believed in yourself, um, everyone, everyone else started to as well, and I think that's so true. I think, when people respect their choices, their sobriety, there's a certain if I, if I respect mine, everyone else is going to too, Um, and also, you know, there's that saying, the ones closest to us are the last ones to see us change, or right. So, and I think that's true, you know, if you, if you look at family because I guess they have the closest eye as to when we were, you know, like I think of my mom or dad, um, you know, it was just like a convincing, like, no, listen, this is really, it's really okay. And then, once I truly, truly believe that was in my own heart I knew I didn't have to say that to them any longer, you know, and that was a turning point, you know, because it meant that I took hold of it. I wasn't doing it for anything or anybody else, but I was doing it because I knew I was completely done.

Speaker 1: 32:52

So, yeah, that's really important and powerful, and I love that the, your children, know about your account and you know, cause this is like it's the way of the future Right and so and their involvement and their excitement for it, you know, is really great. It's like you, you know it's a support. And your friends that you met along the way, who you who have been a support to you, you know it's a support. And your friends that you met along the way, who you who have been a support to you, you know, just as you're supporting those women in your DMs that come in privately or otherwise, you know, to share their hearts and about their struggles or their questions. So that's very powerful, Thank you. So what else? What do you see in your future with this? Thank you. So what else? What do you see in your future with this With? Well, I know your alcohol free journey is you're steadfast, your your line. Drinking is not an option. It's so important to have those one liners that somebody can just grab and mean.

Speaker 2: 33:46

Yeah, I think I would love to write a book. At some point I joked in my I was in one of the captions that my book is going to be called Drinking is Not an Option. I don't know what it's going to be called. You know I was a writer, for I did spend my professional career in public relations and so I wrote. All the time I've written, from the time I, you know, as early as I can remember, I wrote for my high school newspaper, my college newspaper, my entire professional career, and so this is really my account's, really an extension of that. I get to tell, I get to write and I get to tell stories, and I think that is another part of the relatability is I'm a storyteller, so it it that comes naturally for me.

Speaker 2: 34:35

And so I don't know what my book would be about, but it's. It's a way for when my husband's like what are you going to do with this? Come on, the growth has been incredible. Having said that, I want to be able to give everyone who reaches out proper time and attention. Sure, to manage that in a way that I can be present for my family and still minister to these people who who reach out to me. But I don't know. I don't know what it looks like. My husband and I talk about it a lot.

Speaker 1: 35:27

Yeah, so if anyone's listening right now and they are struggling, what would be like three things that you would tell them. That is important as far as stepping into this lifestyle.

Speaker 2: 35:43

There's a hundred things that are important. It's going to be hard to narrow it down to three. I think that it's not going to be easy, but it's going to be worth it. We want instant gratification and we live in a society where that's largely possible in many aspects of our lives. I was going to my event Saturday night. I needed mascara and I needed some tape things to help keep my dress up. So I went to Amazon and it was delivered between 2 and 5 pm that day. That's the society we live in, and so we want things to be immediately better, immediately fixed. And this is a journey, this is a process. There's going to be a lot of ups and downs, so just know it's not easy but it's worth it.

Speaker 2: 36:40

And I would say a slip isn't failure, it's part of the process. And if anyone is a testament to that, it's me, because of all the times I slipped and fell and thought I was failing. And it wasn't failing, it was actually part of the work. You don't fail unless you quit trying. And I say sobriety isn't, it doesn't have to be all or nothing in the beginning as you're figuring things out, because every day we choose not to drink, our bodies rejoice and, lastly, I would say, whenever you're ready to be done, decide.

Speaker 2: 37:21

Drinking is not an option and you can do anything but drink. You can eat a cake, you can go to bed at eight o'clock, you can take a bath at two in the afternoon, you can go for a walk. You can go to a movie by yourself, you can go to the park with your kids. You can take a bath at two in the afternoon, you can go for a walk. You can go to a movie by yourself. You can go to the park with your kids. You can take your dog to the dog park. Anything that gets you out of that feeling like you need a drink, anything but drink. So, regardless of what comes your way, drinking is not an option. So how are you going to deal with it? How are you going to cope? It's not with alcohol.

Speaker 1: 37:53

Love it All good, all good answers, absolutely helpful. Thank you, yeah, so where can? So where can people find you during the week?

Speaker 2: 38:10

The only place I am is on Instagram at macros in mocktails, so macros letter in mocktails.

Speaker 1: 38:15

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