Sober Living Stories
Welcome to the "Sober Living Stories" podcast, a platform built on the power of personal stories. Each Tuesday, Jessica Stipanovic, your host, shines a spotlight on individuals who have undergone remarkable life transformations to inspire hope in listeners worldwide.
Each guest shares their story, giving examples of bold beginnings disguised as endings and life lessons that teach how dark moments often hold the key to unlocking the brightest light.
This podcast inspires positive life changes. Whether you're sober curious, living an alcohol-free lifestyle, have overcome a challenge and lived to tell about it, or support someone who wants to shed a habit in light of a new one, our episodes promise to leave you feeling understood, hopeful, and motivated to create meaningful transformations in your life.
Join us for powerful new episodes every Tuesday, where the most difficult life experiences serve to uplift and inspire. Regardless of your background or belief system, the "Sober Living Stories" podcast is your ultimate destination for uplifting narratives where hope shines from the most unexpected places.
In addition to featuring our weekly guests, each month on the "Sober Living Stories" podcast, we have the privilege of sitting down with a new author, delving into their story and the wisdom they've shared in their book.
Here's the exciting part: their book becomes the giveaway for that month.
Tune in every Tuesday for brand-new episodes and your chance to win the gift of a transformed life.
Sober Living Stories
The Power of Sober Motherhood
What happens when a mother's fierce love for her children collides with the unrelenting grip of alcoholism? In this raw and moving conversation, Jenny breaks her silence to share a 16-year journey of motherhood in recovery that will resonate with anyone who has ever struggled to be present for those who need them most.
With honesty, Jenny takes us back to the toughest days of battling a disease she knew nothing about while raising a one-year-old and three-year-old, praying each morning not to drink, only to surrender by afternoon. "The only thing more powerful than a mother's love is alcoholism," she reflects after hearing someone speak those words, which resonated so deeply in her own heart at the time.
After exhausting every alternative—from hypnosis and psychiatry to vitamin regimens—Jenny found her way to the solution she'd been most resistant to: a 12-step program that offered not just sobriety but a complete transformation. The results speak volumes: a 26-year marriage, a son who is thriving at university, and a beautiful daughter who trusts her mother completely with her questions about alcohol.
Perhaps most powerful is Jenny's message to mothers currently struggling: what your children truly need isn't your physical presence at all costs, but "a sober, healthy, emotionally stable mother." The community of women she found became family, holding her babies during meetings and teaching her how to navigate motherhood without alcohol. Today, she's gone from being the one who needed constant help to being a pillar of strength for others.
Whether you're personally touched by addiction or simply interested in stories of profound human transformation, Jenny's journey offers hope that even our most overwhelming challenges can become the foundation for our most meaningful contributions. Listen now and witness how recovery doesn't just save lives—it changes family legacies for generations to come.
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Your story matters.
Hi and welcome to another episode of the Sober Living Stories podcast. Meet Jenny. She's a dedicated mom of two, has been married for 26 years and is also a powerful example of living an alcohol-free lifestyle. Her commitment to a positive change that she made 16 years ago has not only transformed her own life, but has made a significant impact on her community. Jenny generously dedicates her time and support to uplift other women seeking success in the alcohol-free space. She's going to join us today and share a part of her personal story for the very first time, and she's going to talk about what it's like to be sober as a mom and how she got that way. So she's going to take us all the way back and bring us up to her present day, giving us insights along the way. Welcome to the show, jenny. I'm so happy to have you here.
Speaker 2:Thank you, jessica, it's good to be here.
Speaker 1:One thing I did not mention is Jenny and I have been best friends, almost closing in on 20 years now, and it took her about a year to come on and I was surprised one day to open my inbox and see her there. Sharing your story is a very personal thing to do and it's also courageous because you kind of allow yourself to be vulnerable. But then it's very powerful for not only the person telling their story but for the people that hear it. So I'm so glad you're here. Just start at the very beginning and just take us to your present day.
Speaker 2:All right, you know you had asked me what I kind of wanted to focus on and I was at a. I heard some speakers a couple of weekends ago and one of the speakers said she said the only thing more powerful than a mother's love is alcoholism. And that struck me so powerfully because I can remember not understanding alcoholism at all, trying to not drink every day and drinking every day, and at the time I had a one-year-old and a three-year-old and I wanted nothing more than to be the best mother I could possibly be for these children and I would fail every day. Once I came in and I was taught what alcoholism is and that it contains a physical allergy, I understood where I was at that time. But back then, 18 years ago, I would wake up every morning and the thought would come to my head I would pray to a God who I did not understand, didn't believe in at the time, and I would just say please don't let me drink today. And I would hear a voice that would say well, you need to throw away the vodka that you've got hidden in the underwear drawer. And then I would reply no, because I just need a little bit. And every morning I would wake up and I would feel so insane. In my head Nothing felt clear, everything was so erratic. And I would take a drink of that vodka and everything would just get clear and calm. My world seemed okay and I would think, how am I supposed to give this up if it's the only thing that makes me feel sane? And that's what I believed? And then if it would have lasted like that for the whole day, that would have been great. But what I didn't realize, of course, is once I put the alcohol into my system, the physical allergy kicked off and I had no choice for that entire day and I would try to fight it. The craving and the physical allergy was just so strong in me that I would lose the battle every day and I would feel like such a pathetic mother human being. You know, I can.
Speaker 2:I often, when I share my story, I talk about, you know, trying to read my kids' bedtime stories and I couldn't keep my eyes open because you know I was going to pass out and I would think to myself how am I going to keep doing this? And you know, I think how am I going to help them with their algebra homework, their geometry homework when they're older. Because I didn't. I didn't know that there was a solution out there. I just thought that I had to try to figure out how to manage being a drunk mom, because I had tried to stop drinking so many times before this that I was absolutely hopeless and I thought this was just my lot for life. I've got to figure out how to manage it and it was a miserable way to live.
Speaker 2:And I don't know how many psychologists, psychiatrists before this point some of them, had suggested a 12-step program, like probably at least 10 years earlier. Um, it suggests a strongly suggested a 12 step program. And I was like, absolutely not. And at the time I was like you know, that's not my problem, if we could figure out all my problems, then I wouldn't drink that much. And you know he was like that's not how it works. But that's what I believed.
Speaker 2:And you know I always say that the 12, the 12 step program, was the last door on the block for me. I wanted anything but that. I knew I was an alcoholic, I knew I couldn't stop drinking, but please, let there be something other than than that. And I had tried, um, you know, different. I went to psychiatrists that put me on medications, went to multiple psychologists who flew to Boston to be hypnotized and I tried this humongous vitamin program that I had completely forgotten about until I kept getting these ads for the vitamin program and I'm like, oh yeah, my poor sister had bought me like this big kit for the vitamins to try to, you know, try to help me. And I tried over exercising. I mean I'd like every anything possible to stop drinking.
Speaker 2:I tried to do and probably you know the five years leading up and you know when. I remember when, when I found out I was pregnant with my son, I mean I was incredibly grateful that I was able to stop drinking for both of my pregnancies. But what I believe I know today is that my alcoholism had not progressed to the point that that was not, would not be possible. I kind of believe if there was a third pregnancy before sobriety, it probably would not have gone that way, because each time I picked up after my children were born, the progression was significant. And like for the first pregnancy, you know, I was put it down and I was okay, and for the second pregnancy, I thought about it throughout the whole pregnancy when do I get to drink again? When do I get to drink again?
Speaker 2:And my husband, you know, when, I remember after, after, when I got I think it was after the birth of my son, and you know and he was like you know well, we know you can stop. So just, you know, just don't drink the hard stuff, just stick to wine. And I was like that's a great idea. You know, we were both so misunderstanding of what was going on. And then, after the second time, you know, he would literally beg me not to drink and just like it was my greatest desire, it was his too. He wanted to hold his family together and he would have done anything to hold his family together.
Speaker 2:Neither of us understood the disease of alcoholism, so we were trying to fight it without going to the solution. And you know, it was absolutely chaotic. And I can remember, like when I had about a year of sobriety and one of our friends who had come in about the same time and she's like I just can't even imagine getting sober with children. You know, getting sober takes up all my time. How could you possibly do it with children? And my first thought was I can't imagine doing it without children, because children don't keep me sober. But they definitely gave me a huge reason why I wanted to be a sober woman. Like I said, that was my biggest desire every morning was just to be the best mom I could be. And so when I've worked with some women to try to help with their sobriety journey if they're actively drinking and the topic comes up of going to a detox or going to rehab, I want to say 100% of them feel I can't leave my children. I know today is that's such a tiny blip in the rest of our lives that it is so tremendously worth it, like I. You know, in hindsight, if I could have done that, that would have been fantastic, but you know I can't leave my kids. They need me. The reality is they did not need that mom.
Speaker 2:You know some people will refuse to say I was an abusive mother. The way I was drinking is absolutely abusive and the things you know I would put them in their car seats and drive with them after I had been drinking. That is absolutely abuse and you and I had talked about before. You know if a babysitter was doing the things you know that I would, there's no way I would let her in my house and I was, you know the mom trying my best, but that's not an that's no excuse. And, um, and you know today that I know the solution, there's absolutely no excuse. You know I can give myself some grace for the fact that I didn't understand the disease and know the solution, but, um, you know that I would do anything to protect my kids and at that time in my life I was do anything to protect my kids and at that time in my life I was probably the biggest danger to them.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, you talked about so many things, so let's pause here for a second and just go back, because this is really honestly, it's incredible that you came on today and talked about this subject in particular Because just this morning I was scrolling through and I saw an acquaintance of ours Her name is Ashley and she posted something about her son and I reached out to her because it just hit me in my heart and I thought I asked her. I said I don't know if you speak out loud about your recovery, but I would love to have you on because one of the best listened to and most popular episodes on this podcast was one that had family in the title and to speak about being a mom and the gratitude and the you know everything that comes with that when you're in sobriety or living alcohol free or made a positive change. So I just reached out to her and I didn't know what you were going to talk about, but when, before we hit record, you said I'd like you know, I'd like to go over a couple of things here, so I'm so glad for that. You talked about alcoholism as a disease and I can relate to that because I I was the same in that I thought every drink I was putting into me was helping me too. You know, I'll stop doing this when I'm not so sad. I'll stop doing this when I'm not.
Speaker 1:So fill in the blank and not understanding the disease of alcoholism. I didn't understand that. That was the one thing, because I had already crossed over. That was keeping me sick. So, understanding what the disease is A and then B you had talked about. Well, I've known you for a long, for a very long time and what you just spoke about just was like because I don't, I mean, I see you as just health and wellness and beauty and grace and faith filled and incredible mom and so. But you know, to talk about how it was then and having a better understanding of the disease and stuff, it's just, it's just unbelievable because there's so many people that don't understand like, yes, if you're in the throes of alcoholism, that this is a disease and it does need a solution, and it's usually a spiritual solution, because we've tried all the other ones for whatever reason, we don't have to understand it, but they didn't give us the longstanding sobriety we were looking for.
Speaker 1:That would be required to have a complete life change as a mom, a wife, a business professional or a community member right. So what have you seen in your home change since you've started this way so many years ago?
Speaker 2:Well, bless my son. My son is 22 now and when I fully got sober he was five, yeah, five. He was five years old, he was in kindergarten and he was failing kindergarten Anything with the kids. It just breaks my heart to think about. But this poor little guy, he was so full of anxiety and he had symptoms of OCD. He was in kindergarten just constantly washing his hands, constantly washing his hands, and I can remember being in the principal's office discussing this and I knew that it was because of his home life, but I felt like I couldn't share that with them. So I knew what the problem was, but I sure wasn't going to share that with them. But so how are we going to fix this problem without actually discussing what the real problem was? So fast forward to now, you know he's living on his own with some roommates in an apartment, going to University of Central Florida, getting his bachelor's in computer science, and he's just thriving and it was, you know, amazing, quite a process between kindergarten to there, of him healing alongside of me. You know we went through the OCD and the anxiety and the depression and I'm, you know, extraordinarily grateful that I got the help and the confidence to be able to, by this time, tell people what the real problem was. When I would take him to psychologists and doctors, I would, you know, flat out, say look, I'm an alcoholic, I'm a recovered alcoholic. But you know, here's part of why we are here and why this is happening so that they didn't have to guess and they didn't come up with the wrong reasons and so that he was able to get the help he needed.
Speaker 2:And you know, fast forward to when he was in middle school, like I didn't share with them, you know that I was an alcoholic and what was going on until he was in middle school, I knew the conversation was going to have to happen and I didn't know when it was going to happen and what you know. And he came home and he's like you know, we're learning about alcoholism in school and he just had all these questions and I think in the back of his mind he knew you know, looking back on it now, just the way he was asking me questions about alcoholism and I just got the overwhelming feeling that this is it, I have to tell him. And I told him and he burst out in tears and his he said to me you were the person I looked up to most in this world. Now I don't want to be anything like you, and I mean like my heart just about stopped. And then by the end of the conversation he said you know, if you could overcome that, then I know I can overcome anything.
Speaker 2:Today it's a very open conversation in our home because my friends taught me that I need to put my program first and my 12-step program first. They know when I'm going to meetings and doing these things and working with other women, how vitally important it is to my life and they support it. And there are times when my daughter will be like do you really have to go to another one? And she's helped me to kind of relax a little bit, I guess. One time I was visiting her in Orlando and I'm like I got to go, I've got to get back, I've got to get back, and she's like do you really? I don't know. I think I can stay here with you and that's. You know the whole balance. That's challenging but necessary, and for me it's continuing to learn and grow and evolve and it just it changes constantly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's so important. I think there's so many moms out there who either struggle with you know this particular either getting sober or staying that way, and then they have to deal with which you didn't have to, but custody and different things having their children taken away. You can't think of anything worse, you know.
Speaker 1:And so how important it is to make that change, and to make it a permanent change, not for it to fluctuate, but I know that it is difficult in the beginning, as we get sober, to understand what it is and to stay that way. So could you talk a little bit about your beginning of that walk and what happened and some things that you did or maybe people could avoid and how you succeeded in staying, because I think that's difficult for people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I think it's very common for mothers to think I can't be away from my child. My child needs me and what I learned is what my child needs is a sober, healthy, emotionally stable mother, and early on. I'm very fortunate that my husband I had a husband who was supportive and we would get the kids to sleep by like 7 pm and then I would hit the 8 pm meeting. And I was also fortunate I could go during the day and I would hit the noon meeting. My friends taught me again that once my husband understood the importance, he was going to step on board to help me. And I know that's not everybody's situation but, like I said, I'm very grateful that it was mine, that he was helpful.
Speaker 2:There was a lot of resentment but we walked through it. It wasn't an easy thing to do. You know, at one point he's like you know, is this our life? Now? We're just going to be passing off the children while you run off to meetings, and I was, you know, honestly, like I don't know. But this is what our life has to be at this moment and I do try to encourage new women in that that it's going to be a lot, especially the first year, but then it can become almost effortless and it just becomes a part of your every day, your day to day.
Speaker 2:You know, I would, once I was able to start working again, and you know it would be like throughout the school year my meetings and things would look like this, and then summer would happen and I would have to switch it all up. That would no longer work. I think one of the things that I see today is the women who get sober and then they have kids. A lot of times they think, oh, I've got to pour it all into the children, which of course we do. But we're not going to be any good to anybody if we're not sober. And I know for me that when I'm doing the things I need to do, I have so much more patience and tolerance and love, even, you know, for the kids, you know, but having toddlers is not easy at all. Cut back on everything I'm doing spiritually, I'm just making everything else so much harder.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know I well this is a good segue into exactly this is that what we find out is it's not really about the drink or alcohol itself, it's about kind of what it does to us. And I think what living alcohol-free does is it puts us back on some emotional plane where we can actively be wonderful moms and committed wives and just members of society again, because it brings us that emotional stability. And so how did you see that happen in your life? Going from where you came from to removing the alcohol but then learning how to live emotionally stable and well-rounded and balanced?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That was by surrounding myself with women who'd already done it. That could teach me the way, one step at a time, you know. So when I came in and I put down the alcohol, like the alcohol was my protection and my safety and the buffer from my emotions and everything. So I took that away and the anxiety was just, you know, through the roof and I'm so worried, the worry about you know how my husband thinks and what my kids are thinking and how we're all relating to each other. And so the solution was to develop a stronger relationship with my higher power, who, for me, is God. And, like you know, like I mentioned, I didn't, I didn't believe in it when I came in, and I can remember when, when I was told that the spiritual solution, I was like, oh my gosh, that's not going to work for me.
Speaker 2:But I was promised that it would. And you had told me, as long as you're honest, open-minded and willing and do this program to the best of your ability, he's going to come in and rearrange everything. And he is going to come in and rearrange everything and he is going to solve all your problems. And when I share that with other moms who might be struggling. I say I want to add to that he will solve all your problems. And this program and I don't want to stop doing either because it's twofold to me it's my higher power and it's the 12-step program that I'm in I have to do it all to stay emotionally balanced and it's a definite process. I can remember calling you one time and being like you know.
Speaker 2:So I'm not allowed to fly off the handle at my husband anymore and I would end every conversation or every argument with him, as you know, F off and you're like we don't do that anymore. I'm like well, it seems to work. And I can't imagine saying that to him today, because we do evolve and grow and I like the cute little one-liners. You either grow or you go, and that is absolutely true.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to be white as snow and perfect by any means, but as long as I'm striving, like you said, to be the best mom, the best wife I can be and not focus so much on what the other person's doing. But how can I improve and I see it even today in my emotional stability If I'm doing all the things I need to do to stay close to my higher power and the women around me. I'm relatively even keel, and if I am not, I'm flying off the handle a lot quicker. I'm snappier, I'm not a joy to be around, and today I feel that, and it's so uncomfortable for me that I want to get out of it, and I know the solution today is to get back to doing the basic things that I need to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And also you'd mentioned grace and giving yourself some grace and you know, as a mom who doesn't have a problem with alcoholism, it requires a lot of grace on a daily basis because we're constantly, you know, raising kids. It's like an emotional roller coaster every day. You know, we're dealing with a lot of different personalities and their emotions and we're responsible for them and it's a lot, and so when you add that in, it can be, but the rewards are so great.
Speaker 1:And like you talked about fear of judgment and all of that, and everybody experiences that. But it's like when you realize you're strong enough to have become a mom. You know I'm there, you know you get married or otherwise, you're living your life, you have gone through alcoholism, you're absolutely strong enough to make a decision, to put it down and to succeed. You know and I think you kept mentioning friends and support and, as we both know, like I think community is so extremely important because you know the accountability and holding you to the truth of who you are really happens there. And so, like, out in the world, with our acquaintances and and people that we may, you know, see, see at school or see whatever. But there's really when you know people and you know their stories and you know where they came from, there's just this commonality that brings you together and you both root for each other in such an incredible way that you just you know it's just.
Speaker 1:I've never seen anything like it and it's just been like the core piece, you know, to continuing to evolve in this program is surrounding yourself with strong women who have gone before you and done it and then you ask them and having the courage to ask and then to take their advice, we know, I know, I know how to do it, but we have to say no, maybe we don't, and we want to do it better.
Speaker 1:And, um, you know there's something to be said for the 12 step program that I know has completely saved my life A hundred percent.
Speaker 1:Um, you know there's something to be said for the 12-step program that I know has completely saved my life 100%. You know, that was my path and my upbringing here, and I believe it's why I am still here and able to do anything that I want, because I had such a strong foundation, and you as well. And just getting that right and having that willingness in the beginning, even though, even if we think it's not going to work, even if it seems all wrong and it feels all terrible, you know that's kind of the clue that it's working. Like if you're not feeling right and it's like then it's not supposed to be easy, because then it would be very easy to let go of. You know, when you pour a lot into something, you have a hard time just walking away from it. So I think there's something to be said for the hard work in the beginning, because if you truly are alcoholic, you have to correct it or you're gonna end up not here and or somewhere else where it's not gonna be your house at home with your family.
Speaker 1:So, it's really a really serious disease for people who truly suffer from alcoholism.
Speaker 2:And like, like you mentioned, you know when I'm working with women and you know, and maybe detox is the answer that they need, and they I can't. I can't be away from the kids. I can't be away from the kids. And the reality is, as we know, if you don't get sober now, maybe not even five years from now, you might not even have your kids, and so it is so worth it to do whatever you need to do to get sober, and if that means some time away from the kids, that's what we have to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so do you ever concern yourself with, like, if you go back to when you were getting sober and you know, you talked about your son. And what about your daughter? Did you see? Because she was how old? She was very young.
Speaker 2:She was very young yes, she was like one when I started coming in and then just barely three years old when I got sober, wow. And so she, like he remembers, like you know, a couple arguments. He doesn't remember a lot but he, you know, it definitely affected him more. So she doesn't really remember, which is fantastic. She doesn't remember me as a, as a drunk mom, but just our relationship today is beyond my wildest dreams, which sounds so dorky, is beyond my wildest dreams which sounds so dorky.
Speaker 2:But it is because I, I've been able to be a sounding board for her and she knows that I'm a safe place to come to talk to. And she has those conversations with me about, about alcohol and drinking and her fears and and is she going to be an alcoholic? And of course I tell her there's no way I can tell you if you are, you're not, but I know that. You know you'll be okay. You know it's not the death sentence, that it used to be and that always. Just, you know, when I really truly think about how short of a time this program has been around, I mean we used to be locked up or dead. There was no solution, and so today you know if that is her future, you know, I'm fully confident that there will be women to help her.
Speaker 2:You know we joke in the meeting so often. You know I'm grateful to be here. When we come in we're like what are you grateful about? There's nothing to be grateful about. And you know, today this program has given me a way of life beyond anything I could have imagined just the inside work that I'm so grateful that I am an alcoholic, so I could get to this point, because you know all of the psychologists, the psychiatrists and the self-help books and everything didn't get me here. And you know, as you promised me, you do this work and it's going to happen and it and it did, and you know. So today, you know I get to, I get to walk beside her and you know I've got a, an army of women that'll be able to help her if that's ever the case. And maybe it's not, you know, we have no idea. I have no idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we don't. You know, that's the thing, you know. I remember stopping trying to figure it out if it's a genetic predisposition or if it's something that I just grabbed as people can grab something else like food or money or shopping, or you know, this just tends to have a really poor outcome. Can you hear me? Because this kind of thing, you know, there was a time I wanted to go back and I did a timeline and like trying to figure out when and what and where, and it's just I landed at the same spot as you. It's like I'm just grateful it all happened because, it absolutely changed my life, which means it
Speaker 1:changed the lives of everyone that I touched and all of my family members, and you know, I became a different person because of it and I would have never got to otherwise. So the gratitude is there for sure. So what do you think about your when you see girls who come in and say that they couldn't possibly do this or do that because of that? You touched on that. I remember a conversation I heard once. I understand what you were saying when you said you can't get sober because of your children, but they certainly are like a guiding force of keeping you here.
Speaker 1:Totally could relate with that, because when I put down alcohol I did not have children yet, but my brother's children were my entire heart niece and nephew, and they were pivotal in the reason that I chose to put this down forever because, I could not imagine them getting a call or it just broke my heart.
Speaker 1:It makes me choke, you know, like choke up right now because it was. I can just bring myself back to that and you know, just, it was just so like important to me to correct this, you know, and absolutely incredible. So I think that and we've seen a lot of girls with custody cases where having their children taken away but then brought back because they were supported, were having their children taken away but then brought back because they were supported, like you said, an army of women showed up to their court date to support them and to vouch for them because they absolutely were living different. So that's so important to people. No, there's hope.
Speaker 1:It takes time and patience, but there's also a lot of women who have gone before and done all this and have had exceptional outcomes, just like yours. What else do you? Could you add anything as far as some of the benefits that brought you back into community or just in your home that this kind of lifestyle has brought to you because you've been doing it for so long now?
Speaker 2:Well, I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that my husband and I would not still be together, you know, if I didn't get sober. I mentioned that he I have a lot of gratitude for him wanting to keep his family together because, you know, he was rightly so, very angry with the situation, but he, you know he would have done anything. And so today, for, you know, 26 years, we're able to communicate so much better.
Speaker 1:We just celebrated our 11th and I'm like oh, wow, I mean that's like double and then some.
Speaker 2:And you know, and I remember when I got to that point where I'm like, wow, we've been, I've been sober in my marriage longer than I was drunk and of course the whole, the first half wasn't all bad but you know, but it just it was dramatically different the relationship I'm able to. You know I was able to help, um, my mom when she got sick and through her passing, and you know, so often in the rooms we hear I was, you know, I was the one that needed all the help. For so long Everybody was surrounding around Jenny trying to fix Jenny. What can we do for Jenny? And then, 15 years later, I'm the one that they're coming to to try to help in the dire situations when my mom needed help getting to the doctors and throughout the time that she passed, I was the one that was there for her and for my dad trying to navigate the whole thing, which is mind-blowing.
Speaker 2:And I can remember there was a lot going on in my life at the time that she got sick. My kids were still in I think they were middle school and high school and I was working a lot of hours running a business and there was a lot of drama in the business. And I can remember and I told my dad, I said, well, I'll start taking mom to all the doctor's appointments. And he's like you don't have time for that. And with all the confidence that I can only get from God, I said he's going to work it out, he'll work it out. And that is absolutely what he did. We made all of the doctor's appointments and I got done everything else that needed to be done and then some. And when I came in, I would never have believed something like that. But that's how he works things out. When I am focused on him and what he needs me to do, he makes sure everything gets done. And you know my children are extraordinarily important to my God. You know that he loves them just as much as he loves me, and he wants them to be happy and so, of course, he's not going to neglect them, and that's how he works it all out for the for the better good.
Speaker 2:You know when I would have never told you that I was afraid of people or anything. You know, when I came in, you know if you asked me what is your fear list, I'd be like there's nothing. You know I'm afraid of nothing, but the reality is is that, as absolutely one of the reasons why I started drinking was fear of people. And you know, just feeling so insecure in my skin and if I didn't have the alcohol to make me feel okay, I mean you know, just feeling so insecure in my skin and if I didn't have the alcohol to make me feel okay, I mean, you know, thinking everybody's talking about it and nobody wants me there, nobody likes me, you know, and that if I try to tell to somebody who's not an alcoholic, you know, the biggest gift I've ever gotten is that I feel okay.
Speaker 2:And they're like that doesn't really sound like a big gift, but to me it's huge, because I never felt okay and I wanted to feel okay. And so what can I put in me to feel okay? And the answer was the 12 steps and reliance on a higher power. Oh, my God, and now I can go anywhere and do anything and feel comfortable being there, and for me that is miraculous. It just, I mean, it makes, it makes living so much more worthwhile to not be constantly in fear of what, of nobody liking me, which you know can sound silly, but it was overwhelming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you a hundred percent and I would. I would beg to differ that I think people who are non-alcoholic do feel that way. I would think I mean maybe it's more so because it's part of an ism, but I think a lot of people feel that way. So it takes like people like you who are courageous enough to say that out loud, where people go. Oh my gosh, that is so true because we're all not that different, because if they don't have what we had.
Speaker 1:They have something else, you know, and so it's just about that connection, that understanding, empathy, like in love for other women who are going before us, standing beside us, sitting across from us, and just having this greater acceptance and understanding of. They're probably feeling this too. So, it's really okay and I love that.
Speaker 1:I love that you can show up and and feel authentically yourself and confident you know, and I think every yeah, it's just, it's great, it's a gift. It is a gift. I think it's a genuinely, I think it's a huge gift to say I feel, okay, you know.
Speaker 1:I really do so with. That said, what else can we touch on with kids and momming? I think what's important to note about motherhood and sobriety is you know, for me I had my children later in life. It was just how it went. You know, it's just how my life unfolded. So some people may be young and just trying to get this right in their twenties. Some people may be in their forties and think I waited too long and I can attest that you didn't.
Speaker 1:You can do it now. But, like, what would you say to moms out there who are struggling with this alcoholism or just anything, anything in their life that's just holding them back from being who they're supposed to be? Like, what advice would you give to them?
Speaker 2:Well, moms who are struggling with alcohol. I would encourage them to get help and if the first place that they go to isn't the right help, just keep trying. Fear kept me from getting true help for so long, just so worried about what people are going to think and people you know, like you said, judging me and for my alcoholism that I stayed sick and alone for such a long time. You know there are, I was, I was. I had preconceived notions of what the 12 step programs were like, so I didn't want to go there and I can tell you that, especially today, there are so many women there that it just it becomes, you know, like a family and there's so many of us that come in and we're like, oh, I don't like women, you know, and that's, that's our.
Speaker 2:I don't like women, I don't want to be friends with women and I think I would willing to say a hundred percent of it is because we're judging the other women. So of course we think they're judging us and, um, you know past relationships with women, you know we were always fighting and you know competing against each other and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that in this program there is no competition that everybody just has, wants the best for each other, and that is such a freeing place to be and like with if you have young children, to find the meetings where there are women willing to take your kids outside while you do the meeting or hold the baby while you're in the meeting and there's tons of them in our area that are very child-friendly, that make it comfortable to go there with. Because I would have never have thought that in a million years I didn't think I could. Yes, that's so true.
Speaker 1:I remember somebody years ago wanted to go there with Cause. I would have never have thought that in a million years I didn't think I could. That's so true. I remember somebody years ago wanted to go become an esthetician. She wanted to get back into the work world. Her kids were about eight, nine, whatever, and she's like how am I going to do this? And everybody kind of rallied around her and said I'll pick up on Tuesdays, thursdays she went back to school and that's what she was. She became an esthetician and started making her own money.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's just incredible, they do really show up show up because they know. I mean, they know how difficult it is and they're there for one another. And it is so true that people show up and say I'm not.
Speaker 1:You know, I don't do well with other women you know, and just as we've, we've like, just as in the past, how we kind of lived, like thinking the lie, was the truth that when you start to live in full truth, that becomes, you know, thrown out too, because there's nothing better than sitting in a room full of women.
Speaker 2:Yes, and you know, if you're in a group and they're judging you, that's just that's not the right group, it's just the wrong group. And and I, if you're in a group and they're judging you, that's just that's not the right group. And I'm grateful that there's very few wrong groups in our area. In my opinion, everywhere I go, I feel welcomed and we're all there just for the common solution to get, to get well and to be well and to get better. And if you have kids, we're going to, we're going to hold your babies and we're going to help you through that. You're not.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right. Yeah, that's so true. So what has been your biggest gift? Being a mom who has made that choice 16 years ago?
Speaker 2:The relationship and the friendship that I have with my children today, Getting sober. When you have children and you get sober, I would say most of us go through a period where the guilt we feel so much guilt that how do we parent and start coming up with discipline and rules and all these things when we have so much guilt. And that was a long journey to go through to come up with the parenting style that worked, to where my children respect me. But we're also very close and we enjoy being together and they have shared with me over the years friends of theirs that have parents that are active alcoholics and whenever we have those conversations I am just filled with such gratitude that I am a sober mom to them today, because that I would be exactly who they are school, you know, if you think you can't leave your kid to go to detox, think about and this was just from alcohol, it wasn't drugs, it was just from alcohol, too many DUIs and the things that came with it. So she's in prison, she's really not there for her child and you know, my kids know these stories and for them to be able to come to me and they'll ask me why can't their mom get sober? That's no. There's no easy answer. I can only say the solution is there, but it's just it's very hard to find the understanding.
Speaker 2:I think that that is the solution you know, like we shared about, when we think that the alcohol is the solution. The alcoholism is so strong in our brains that it's so hard to see that there's another way out there, Like we say all the time. For that, I'm very grateful that, for whatever reason, I did find the way, but there are so many struggling that just can't find it. Beyond anything, my relationship with my children and the fact that I get to wake up every morning to be the best mom I can be because of course I still screw it up royally often but whenever I do, I can think to myself I've got another chance tomorrow, Whereas if I was still the drunk mom, if I was alive by this time, they wouldn't want anything to do with me Rightly so, yeah.
Speaker 1:I can recall somebody saying, when I was talking about my niece and nephew, there was a woman. She was speaking about how she was having this intimate conversation with her niece and she said you know, I couldn't believe it that I was sitting there having this conversation. She was talking to me about this thing, these things, and it wasn't about like the content of the conversation that struck her as being like incredible. It was about the fact that she was there to have it. The fact that I was there was just such a miracle because of how she had lived before and shoot.
Speaker 1:she was just so overwhelmed with such a sense of like, gratitude and just so grateful for the moment and for her life. And so, yeah, you talk about just so many things that are so important and so powerful and such an example of hope for people who are on their way in and trying to make a positive change. You know, sitting here with 16 years of sobriety, a 26 year marriage and an incredible relationship with both your children is absolutely amazing. Do you have any other piece of hope that you'd like to share with anyone else listening?
Speaker 2:Well, when I heard that woman share about that the only thing stronger than a mother's love is alcoholism, I kind of added to that For me, the only thing stronger than a mother's love is alcoholism. But the only thing stronger than alcoholism is God's love, and it was instilled in me very strongly and continues to be that. It is imperative that I keep seeking and throughout the book that we read, it constantly tells us that we need to keep seeking God's will for us and that He'll solve all my problems, as long as I'm getting close to Him and following what he wants us to do. And what does he want me to do? He wants me to help other women. That has been one of the consistencies throughout, whether my kids were in school, out of school, what was going on in work is. I have always been helping women throughout these years and I know that that has kept me sober.
Speaker 2:The woman I mentioned that went to prison. I can remember being about five years sober and I was getting busy in life. Everything was getting busy and she reached out to me and she'd had like 15 years sobriety and she went back out and her life had become a complete mess very quickly and I tried to help her at that time and I knew so strongly. God put her in my life right at this time because I was getting too busy and I've seen so many women that just get too busy and I've shared this with them before is when we're feeling busy, meetings seem like the logical thing to stop doing. I've got way too much time to go to these meetings. And then there's almost a feeling of relief when we stop going to them. It's like I can't stop being a mom, I can't stop working, I can't stop doing all these things, but I can choose not to go to that meeting and then that just frees up so much time. But then I would say 95, 100% of the time fast forward and alcohol seems like a logical choice. And then they're back out and drinking again and I think partly because my kids I had kids and they were young when I got sober it's instilled so deeply in me that it's just a part of my way of life.
Speaker 2:There I wouldn't. I would no sooner stop going to meetings and doing my morning routines than than I would stop eating food and drinking water. I mean, it's just such a part of me that of course I'm going to keep doing it and whenever life gets too busy I work with the women around me to figure out how to navigate it. But it's never an option of stop doing the things that got me sober, stop doing the things that get me closer to my higher power, because for me I know without a shadow of a doubt that that will take me back out. And I saw the progression both at my pregnancies and then also. I had a year of not drinking and I drank again. I saw that progression of this disease that I know today that it would be catastrophic if I picked up a drink again and you know we always say, you know I've got so much more to lose today than I did when I came in and the thought of my kids seeing me drunk oh boy, that would break my heart.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, that's powerful. That's good because life does get busy and you know the priority that was at the beginning. You know minimizes and then that is so true. Everything you just said was so true and you can throw that out because it brings a lot of relief, because there's a little space, but you have to remember what that could truly bring.
Speaker 1:And this has been such a great conversation. I would love to have you on again at some other time to talk about another topic because, with 16 years, and just such an example to so many women and not only that, but to your family and to your children, when you install spiritual principles in your life and an act of service and an altruistic life and those measures I mean like an altruistic life and those measures, I mean that's what you're giving to your kids now. That example because you live it day in and day out. The consistency is incredible and what a gift and what an incredible mother, just family member, wife and member of the community, where you just really uplift so many women in our community. Oh, I just feel so blessed to know you. I'm so, I'm so grateful for our friendship and I'm so glad you came on the show today. Thank you so much, thank you.