Sober Living Stories
Welcome to the "Sober Living Stories" podcast, a platform built on the power of personal stories. Each Tuesday, Jessica Stipanovic, your host, shines a spotlight on individuals who have undergone remarkable life transformations to inspire hope in listeners worldwide.
Each guest shares their story, giving examples of bold beginnings disguised as endings and life lessons that teach how dark moments often hold the key to unlocking the brightest light.
This podcast inspires positive life changes. Whether you're sober curious, living an alcohol-free lifestyle, have overcome a challenge and lived to tell about it, or support someone who wants to shed a habit in light of a new one, our episodes promise to leave you feeling understood, hopeful, and motivated to create meaningful transformations in your life.
Join us for powerful new episodes every Tuesday, where the most difficult life experiences serve to uplift and inspire. Regardless of your background or belief system, the "Sober Living Stories" podcast is your ultimate destination for uplifting narratives where hope shines from the most unexpected places.
In addition to featuring our weekly guests, each month on the "Sober Living Stories" podcast, we have the privilege of sitting down with a new author, delving into their story and the wisdom they've shared in their book.
Here's the exciting part: their book becomes the giveaway for that month.
Tune in every Tuesday for brand-new episodes and your chance to win the gift of a transformed life.
Sober Living Stories
Rewiring the Addicted Brain: A Psychologist's Guide to Addiction Recovery
The complexity of addiction extends far beyond what most people understand. Join Jessica Stipanovic and Psychologist Faust Ruggiero, with over 35 years of clinical experience, as they bring profound insight into this challenging territory on the latest Sober Living Stories podcast.
Ruggiero's approach to addiction recovery challenges conventional thinking. "When you talk about addiction, people almost always go right to drugs or alcohol," he explains, before revealing he's identified at least 17 distinct addiction patterns in his latest book. From gambling and food addiction to exercise obsession, these compulsions share fundamental neurological mechanisms despite their surface differences.
What sets Ruggiero's methodology apart is his action-oriented framework. "I like to write the way I counsel," he shares. "Let's get all the information about you, let's give you all the information about your addiction, and then let's give you action steps." This practical approach mirrors successful 12-step programs, which are essentially structured action plans for recovery.
The family dimension of addiction receives particular attention throughout the conversation. Ruggiero emphasizes that addiction creates ripple effects through entire family systems, with members developing coping mechanisms that often enable continued addiction. "Nobody gets out of this unscathed," he notes, highlighting why recovery must involve healing family dynamics alongside individual healing.
Perhaps most hopeful is Ruggiero's perspective on the brain's adaptability. Through consistent practice and proper support, the addicted brain can learn new patterns of satisfaction without extreme stimulation. "Our brains learn and learning is just repetition," he explains, offering a powerful counterpoint to the misconception that addiction represents an unchangeable aspect of identity.
In the summer of 2016, Mr. Ruggiero began to develop The Fix Yourself
Empowerment Series based on the Process Life Program to help readers address the difficult situations in their lives. He has appeared on television, radio shows, and podcasts, both national and international, to discuss the Process Way of Life. His radio show “Fix It With Faust” debuted in June 2021. On June 8, 2023, the second installment in The Fix Yourself Empowerment Series, The Fix Your Anxiety Handbook, was published. It is also an award-winning publication. In December 2003, The Fix Your Depression Handbook was published. It is the third book in the series. The Fix Your Anger Handbook, the series’ fourth book, was published in May 2024.
Ready to begin your journey toward freedom from addiction? Visit faustruggiero.com to learn more about his "Fix Yourself Empowerment Series" and discover resources tailored to your recovery needs.
Sober Living Stories Podcast Host Jessica Stipanovic is a writer, podcast host, and founder of the Female Entrepreneur Organization. Join here:(1) Female Entrepreneur Organization | Facebook
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Your story matters.
Hi and welcome to another episode of the Sober Living Stories podcast. My next guest is Faust Ruggiero. He's a psychologist who's been in private practice for more than 35 years. In 2016, he began to develop a book series called the Fix your Self-Empowerment Series and, with book five just hitting the shelves what three weeks ago? He's here today to talk about his practice as a clinician, his experiences, his expertise in working with recovering addicts, alcoholics and all the other areas that you have worked with. Just give us your expertise, your experience, what you see and what this book is about that can help the person who is looking to overcome addiction. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Jessica, thanks so much for inviting me. It's a pleasure to be here with you. You know, when you talk about addiction, people almost always go right to drugs or alcohol. They tend to do that and we know, particularly if you're recovering, anyone's recovering. You know there's your primary addiction and then there's all the other ones that come along with it and then there's the ones you substitute when you get off your, when you're going to recovery. There's so many, you know, in the book.
Speaker 2:I put about 17, I think, with 17 addictions in the book, and I like to write the way I counsel. If you're coming into my office, my approach is let's get all the information that we need about you. Let's give you all the information you know about, in this case, your addiction, and then let's give you action steps. These are things you can do to change it. It's just like if you go into a 12-step program, what those steps are? They're action steps. That's what they really are. Let's do these things, learn all of these things. So you know, when I began to learn about treating addicts, it was really the 12-step philosophy that I learned and that, even though I'm not recovering, I follow this every day. This is one of my guideposts, so you know I wrote the book the same way. Let's put action steps at the end of all the chapters and then at the end of the book.
Speaker 1:there's 10 chapters of the master plan, if you will, to get yourself into recovery and progress through it. I had read an excerpt and I love the directness of it, how it said you know what you put in, you're going to get out. And I find that to be really true because when people work really hard at overcoming something, they tend to be invested, so they're not going to step out as quickly to have to redo that process. And you also talk about support how important that is. And then family you know not just the person but like how the family handles it. And those are such important components. Could you just kind of break that down?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. You know when you talk about the first part of it, that commitment, how much you're going to put in. You know, I always use the example of of the person, let's say, who was drinking or using drugs, and go to the first 12 step meeting and decides they're going to sit in the back of the room and they're not going to get a sponsor and they're not going to do any commitments. And you know they're not really going to work the program. But they go to the meetings. They may go to two or three a week, that's great, but that's how much you're going to get out of it. You're really not getting into the guts of the program. So what do you want to do? You want to select your meetings, you want to have a home group and you want to take commitments and have a sponsor and work those steps. That commitment is essential, I think, because you're right.
Speaker 2:Now you're invested, now you're doing the things you need to be doing, and it's a program for life. That's the other part. People have to understand the person that comes in my office and says I just want to get cured from this and I said, well, you're in the wrong place because I don't have one. It's a lifetime program, but that's anything we do in our lives. It doesn't just apply to addiction. You want to make changes. I think we have to think enough of ourselves to say I like getting up and working on me every day. I like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like how you put that. You have to think enough of yourself too, because I really think that initial step to overcome any and, like you had said, you had 17 different addictions outlined in the book. So true, there's so many in all different areas of life. But when you make that like internal decision that I do not want to do it this way anymore, then you can come in and sit in the front row or do the thing that you have to do every day to succeed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you mentioned that family component. If you exist in a family, in a work environment, lots of friends, whatever, everyone is affected by the addiction. Not only are they going to be dealing with the results of what you do and the effects, they're also going to play their part in the addiction. Because survival in the addiction means I get to do things to not rock the boat or protect my own interests. And now I'm enabling and now I'm, and sometimes it's for profit. I like to keep you addicted so I have control over things. So you know putting that family component in the book and I did that in every chapter. So the chapter was on gambling or the chapter was on self-abuse or whatever.
Speaker 2:You know, I laid out the way I wanted to do this in the book was to talk about the addiction, give some statistics. But then I wanted to go into the prediction, the way it progressed from use to abuse to addiction. Then I did another piece of the chapter, that's what happens to a person in the grasp of the addiction. Then the following part of the chapter was the collateral damage, which is the family section. Then I went into the steps for each and every addiction. Then I went into that whole guidepost, that's 10 chapters, the blueprint for getting sober. And that is not just an individual thing, it's a family thing, it has to be. You know we don't get out of it. Nobody gets out of this unscathed, it doesn't happen.
Speaker 1:Right, right, yeah, it's so true. You know, I had heard someone say once and I just thought it was kind of true Like if you think about dancing like and you've been dancing like salsa your whole life with this person, right, and then when you go in and get well or get better or make a huge change, then you're going to start like dancing a different dance and like they're either going to come along and learn that new dance with you or they're going to probably fall away and the ones that come in are committed to learning that new dance. Everyone really profits from that. Or, you know, the family system changes for the good, but it's hard sometimes to to shift that.
Speaker 2:Well, you know one of the chapters I do on that blueprint for everybody to follow is what I call just about making decisions. You know, people firmly believe that when they stop using the drug of choice, the activity of choice, whatever it is, things automatically get better. And I just tell people, that's only the starting spot. Now you're going to be into the repair work. Now you're going to be into understanding all the dynamics and all the connections involved in that addiction. You know so. Now is when all the work begins. Now is when you start to see all the things. Oh, my God, this is going to be.
Speaker 2:You know this huge mountain in front of me, which, of course, is why we say, one day at a time, let's do things nice and simple, we keep it at your pace, but you keep on going forward. That's the key. Family will come along, or they won't, that's up to them. You will have decisions about who gets in, who gets out. That's why there's people, places and things. You're going to make decisions now. Where you were on autopilot, I was called addictive autopilot before. Now you're on conscious decision-making in everything you do, and the other part of making a decision or setting a boundary, whatever it may be, is now you've got to have to defend all those things. Now you have to be accountable, and that's where you need help. You have to have a network. Yeah, I agree. I agree Physicians, clinicians, whatever they may be, don't do this, try to do this on your own, because you won't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And for the listener. You know, when you first hear like it's, it's seems like daunting, like oh, you have to do this and you have to do all this work. You know when you think about being in an active addiction and then hitting the point where you make a decision, make a change, and then you have all this work ahead of you. But the end result and the process itself is so revealing to who you really are that it should be like sure, it's difficult, but it's so rewarding, it's just everything. So I don't want listeners to be discouraged, although there's so much waiting on the other side of that, it's absolutely incredible.
Speaker 2:And you're not doing it alone. I always try to make that distinction for my people. When you were in the addiction, you were doing this alone and that's what you chose to do. You didn't open up to anyone. Everything was a secret. There were all the games you played, all the things you did to maintain that addiction. You did it all by yourself, Whether you believe it or not, whether you understood it or not. It was a lonely place to be. But you're not using addictive measures to move forward. Now we're opening up. Now, if you're doing the right things, you're going to get a sponsor. That person is going to be there for you. You feel like you want to use. You feel like things are getting overwhelmed. You can call that person anytime.
Speaker 2:If you're going to meetings, you know how this works. You don't just walk in five minutes late into the meeting. You get there 20 minutes ahead of time and you talk to people and you exchange what's going on. And if you're smart, you go to all different kinds of meetings. So you have your speaker meetings, but then you have discussion meetings and step meetings and big book meetings and all those things. So you do the right thing. You go to all these things. You let people in. You get a counselor if you need one, one who understands addiction, so you can start piecing your life back together. You let people in. Addicts don't do that. Addicts tend to want to push people out. It's just if you pull the people in you're no longer alone and what looked like a monumental thing is a piece by piece, little thing you do every day and then you start building little successes and as you do those, you say I can do this, I just have to keep doing it, that's all, and I keep my network close.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, good points. Absolutely, and I think that the relationships that you build in that are authentic and they are real. You know, as opposed to maybe what was happening before it is.
Speaker 2:You know why? Everyone, most of the people you meet in the rooms they're all trying to get better also. So all of a sudden, you've come from a place where people weren't trying to do that. They were beating themselves up to a place where everyone is showing all the love they can, all the support they can, all with the United goal which is to stay sober. When did you ever have that in your life? When you look at that, you say, well, that's there and I can rely on that anytime I need it. What a nice place to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what's great about 12 step, I think, is it is a program of action, but there's also a spiritual component, so it's like a combination and and it's that actionable steps that that can take people through their every day and and the cost of it is so good because it's relatively cost nothing. If you have nothing, you give nothing, but so you know, it's just, it's really, and there's now, with online, people can access it anywhere, even though in person is probably best.
Speaker 2:Sure, you know you talk about the spiritual part and the higher power and you know, being a person of faith myself, I understand that and I teach that component and I have it in the book a chapter called Powerful Surrender. People assume that when you surrender it's a weakness. But what you've done, what you're really surrendering, is all the garbage. You're taking all that stuff and you're surrendering. I'm no longer going to be a slave to that. I am going to surrender to one entity, which is my higher power. You will define that as you define it. For me it's God, but it may be something else for someone else and then you attach to that and then you're able to work through your higher power and turn things over. Instead of worries and pain, you learn how to turn things over to the higher power, connect to a more powerful energy source, if you will, and move in that direction. Again, another part of the program that really helps you in the transition.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think that's true as well. You know that surrender part may be difficult for people who've been going it alone, self-sufficient, independent, kind of fearless out there, and then they put all that down and they're, like you know, supposed to give something over. It's such a good flip of once you really can understand what that means, you know, when you're kind of giving over control to something beyond yourself and then you start to live in that and once the contact's been made, you start to see it everywhere. So it's really, it's really a gift.
Speaker 2:It's hard for a lot of us to get humble and then say I'm going to trust someone. All of a sudden, this person who I've been, where I keep everything close, trust nobody, let nobody in and I'm the master at least I believe. At least I believe I'm the master of my own destiny. But what I am is I'm a prisoner of my own destiny. All of a sudden I'm turning that over and saying sure, you can come into my life, I'm going to let you have all this private information and I'm going to trust you with that. And that's a big step to take. Again, I tell people you're not going in and unloading your entire life at one time. It's again a step by step process. You learn how to touch yourself back and forth with that, because you know if it's a sponsor, you're going to trust your sponsor. But your sponsor is also in the program, so they have to trust you, so that reciprocity is really, really powerful once it gets going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what do you think is you know from your experience over the last 35 plus years? What do you think is the hardest to do in the beginning couple months for people who are looking to overcome something? Is it just, you know, basically like white knuckling kind of things, or is it getting back into their daily life or relationships? What do you see as the most difficult part?
Speaker 2:The hardest part. To me. It's a twofold thing. The first one is to make the decision to say, okay, I'm not doing well. I have to stop telling myself that well, it'll be better, or it's bad because that thing happened. It's not good because I'm not making good decisions or the place in my life I'm at I can't seem to get out of. So my first decision is that I'm going to get help. The second part of that is to now know where to go so you can start the help process and I tell people, you know, if it's an addiction, you have three or four ways you can go. You can go to a counselor, you can go to a 12-step meeting, you can go to your family doctor or you can go online.
Speaker 2:I provide in every chapter I provide the national numbers, the helplines for people to go to with every addiction. You have places to go. You're going to make that first initial step. You know for a lot of people that the first step and actually there's a fifth person you go to which is a friend. You know for a lot of people that the first step and actually there's a fifth person you go to which is a friend. You know my friend used to drink and now he or she hasn't had anything in three years. They went to that meeting. Hey, can you help me out? I'm starting this. You just want to get someone else in the picture to help you make the first step, which is to get in there and get things started. Everything goes from that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's true. I think there's a lot of. It's hard to ask for help if you have not for years and I think that you know can delay your recovery for years. And so just that initial like go in and say, hey, I need some help, and just watch what happens. You know, and I find that you know if you're genuinely, if the decision's been made, you're showing up, people will bend over backwards to help you. If you're helping yourself, if you're showing that interest and they know you really want to get well and make a change, they'll really step forward and help you.
Speaker 2:And I think you've just touched on a very important point why are you making the decision? You know I have people that come and they'll say well, I need help for my drinking, for example. Why do you want to get sober? Well, you know life, it hasn't been good and I should do this. Are you married? Yes, how's the marriage? Well, my spouse says they're going to leave if I don't get help. I said that's a great little push, but if you're doing it for them, you know where I'm going with this. It's not going anywhere because you didn't say I need it. You're saying if I don't do this, you're going to leave. Or you got in trouble with the legal system and they've sent you Somewhere along the line. You have to be able to say I am not doing. Well, Look at my life. My marriage isn't where it should be. Finances maybe that's being compromised or work or friends, all those things. Physically, I'm not feeling good. I'm looking at the decisions I'm making and I'm really not where I need to be. I just don't feel good about my life.
Speaker 2:Now you're talking about a reason to make a change. My wife or my husband is going to leave. It's legitimate, but it doesn't put you in a position to finally get to the point where you say I am making mistakes, it's not about them, it's about me. I have to change because I firmly want this. That's where the those people who do that really increase their odds of getting into and maintaining sobriety. Doing it for someone else. You're going to do it. You know what that's going to do. It's going to create resentments. I'm doing it, but I really don't want to be. I could be doing that tonight. Or you know it's. It's not my problem, it's yours. It's all that kind of stuff. Make a decision for yourself.
Speaker 1:So what do you think is you know? You hear people regardless of sure it could be with alcohol, but it could be with anything Like I can get sober. I can't stay that way. So what's the staying power piece? Can you speak to that?
Speaker 2:It's again maintaining your network and one day at a time. Don't get ahead of yourself. I just have someone come in and we're just starting an addiction program. She's been drinking for 13, 14 years and she says how long will this take? I said I don't know. She says five years from now. I'll probably be okay. I said I don't know. She said well, you should know all these and I said no, I should not. What I can tell you is what you have to do today. If you keep doing that, it's only about today. It's the place you're living.
Speaker 2:Sustained sobriety is not a destination for you. When you get there, and maybe you get your 10-year chip or whatever, fine, you got there. Now you can look back. It's a looking back, but you're only sober today and I just keep people focused on what you have to do today. It's like working out.
Speaker 2:If you say, geez, I'm 50 pounds overweight, I can't lift anything heavy and I can't walk for 10 minutes, let alone run, I'm not going to tell you to go in and grab this program and run with it. I'm going to say go very slow, little things, one day at a time. Don't set goals on what you have to look like. Just go do the program the way you're supposed to and everything else will take care of itself. That's what I tell people with this program. And the other thing is try to enjoy the fact that you're working on yourself. It's not a chore, you're not beating yourself up. You were beating yourself up. Enjoy it. Be able to say you know what I'm going to get. This, I love it, people around me are helping. I'm opening up, I'm feeling good about it.
Speaker 1:Be able to do that. Yeah, yeah, wow, so let me. Let me go somewhere else. I'd love to hear your opinion on this. You know so to me. You know there's a difference between a true alcoholic and somebody who wants who's sober, curious, or wants to, to live alcohol free, but they didn't really have an you know a real problem yet, or you know it's not working for them. So how, how is that approach different? I know that one seems to be like a life-saving mission and the other seems to be a lifestyle change, and so, seeing as you've been doing this for quite a long time, how do you handle that differently when people come to you, or do they not come to you for the one, but you see more of the other?
Speaker 2:It's about 50-50, so to speak, the ones that you know. My life's falling apart. I'm losing everything I know I'm addicted. I'm doing this from morning to evening. That's easy easy to diagnose. The other ones don't present that way. They'll present with my relationship really stinks or I'm depressed a lot or anxious a lot. And then, as I start asking the questions, I'm inevitably just because of training and my own exposure to addicts.
Speaker 2:I always say any substances in your life and be honest with me, let's talk about this. And then they'll say well, you know, they won't tell me that they have a problem with it. They'll tell me that because other things are happening. Maybe they drank a little more, or now they're smoking pot and they got their medical card, but they also buy some and they're supplementing their prescription. Or the gambling. Well, I only do it once in a while. But yeah, how are your finances? Well, so when we go in and we start doing history and we start really getting all the facts together, that's when all this problematic behavior comes out. Sometimes I find addictions hidden there, sometimes I find the movement toward that progression where it's going to take hold. And then the other thing, of course, is family history. Do we have any of that in the family, any substance abuse, other addictions, mental health issues and I go there. Now we start unlocking door after door and this stuff comes out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, because I think when you get further and they say it's not really about the drink or the substance, or the food, or the sugar or the gambling, it's about what the behaviors that that behavior brings, how it makes you feel you're guilty, you're hiding, you're dishonest, you're shameful, which kind of colors your personality and how you handle people in the world. Right, and so I could see it. Yeah, that that when you said it presents differently, absolutely I could see that. So they both, they both have both of those different aspects of whether it's alcohol free living or, you know, bottom rock, bottom alcoholism have an ability to positively get better. Yeah, you know, and I try to say we always want to educate people.
Speaker 2:You know, people have a tendency to misinterpret particularly drugs which are legal, like alcohol and marijuana, and those they're legal or over the counter amphetamines and caffeine, well, they're not doing any damage to me. And I say example someone comes in and says I have so much anxiety now, I always go physical first. Okay, let's see what you're doing. Are you sleeping well? Well, not so good. Caffeine how much caffeine a day? Well, I have three or four cups of coffee. You make it black and strong, you know. I ask any energy drinks? How much sugar? And then, okay, by the end of the night you're still. Are you tired when you go to bed? Well, I am, but down I hit the bed and my eyes are wide open. I said, yeah, that a caffeine presents that way, uh, those. So you know it's not because a drug is legal, does it does not mean it's okay.
Speaker 2:We've legalized pot now and everyone says you know the old story, you can't get addicted to pot. Well, you certainly can, absolutely and long range, that there is a marijuana toxicity that builds in the brain and it's almost like an alcoholic's wet brain after a while. That's very hard to reverse, you know. So you know, I try to let them know that you know these, these addictions are compulsions where the brain is now becoming overly stimulated and you cannot stop. There's a neurological component we have to look at with all of this and it crosses all the addictions. The one thing all addictions have is that it stimulates the brain and the tolerance continues to build in all addictions.
Speaker 1:Wow so just because a drug is legal doesn't mean it's okay yeah. No means, and that would be like caffeine, sugar, marijuana today.
Speaker 2:Alcohol, alcohol.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I could see that. So, yeah, that's really and it's just everywhere and there's just, yeah, everyone moves so fast and we consume, so and you know, there's just such a drive for more.
Speaker 2:No, it's interesting when you look at the legalization of marijuana, everyone says well, we legalized it because it has medicinal. No, we didn't legalize it for that. We like our drugs. We are a drug culture. We like the stimulation and the excitement it produces tax dollars. Now it's a big money crop, just like alcohol. That's why it's legal. You can't stop it from being produced, so the government cashes in. We like our euphoria, so we push it. And now you'll notice it's not just legalized for medicinal purposes. That was only step one. Now it will be legalized for medicinal purposes. That was only step one. Now it will be legalized for recreation. Across the country. We will have a whole new brand of addiction, of addicts. Now we will have marijuana addicts yeah.
Speaker 1:And if you look, yeah, and I think about the driving, you know, drinking and driving bad, smoking and driving not good. And so if you look in the past, over the years, I saw, like in the past say 20 years, just I saw, like in the past say 20 years, just like this influx of the drugs change. Okay, you had the opioid epidemic, before that crack cocaine, I don't know. Like before that it was something else. So I look ahead and I think of marijuana as being like this, even though it's like there's a dispensary on every corner. I don't know where you're from. I'm in Florida and I kind of see them crop up and I'm like, wow, okay, it's just like every corner.
Speaker 1:And when I was in Colorado it was legal at that time. I think it was legal when I was there, but not here. I don't even know if it is here or not, but you know, how can something be so available for medicinal purposes and not be abused or overused in other areas? You know, it's just like any drug. I don't see how it's going to be good.
Speaker 2:We're manufactured to deal with intense, chronic pain. Well, look where the opiate epidemic went. Marijuana will be the same thing. It's not going to be the hard drug like an opiate, but you know the opiate you might have, depending on the person. You might take it 10 times a day or you might take it two or three times a day and get addicted.
Speaker 2:Marijuana it's not just you know, you put it in your pipe and smoke it anymore. The roots to get it into your body, gummies and other oral roots too. They have their pens with them and you know people don't know because the smells are all disguised. So now you know you walk out and you take a hit off your pen and it goes on all day long and people will say and you know where I'm going, I think I'm going to go with this. People will say I'm doing that because I get anxious. No, you're doing that because you're addicted, because when you stop it goes down and you've got to bring the drug back up in your body. So now, what used to be something that helped you with your anxiety now creates your anxiety and you use more of it.
Speaker 1:That's the addictive flow, that is the textbook addictive flow, right it?
Speaker 2:absolutely is. So that's what we'll expect next. So I always say we're gearing up for the next new addicts that will come in there and they will be younger because of the pot. They will start smoking pot much, much younger. It'll be legalized, parents will be smoking. It'll be around the house. There's the vape pen over there and the kid walks over and does this, holds his breath and walks out of the room and we have a whole new clientele and it's going to be something that we have never seen before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember about 10 or 15 years ago or maybe 10, I don't know when the pills were big and I remember thinking, gosh, I've never seen so many young people like, say, 20, 30, so much pain that they needed to. You know, and yeah, and just people, that college kids just started stealing things and you know, just unexpected, like regular, it's just took over so many people's lives, you know. So, yeah, the marijuana thing, it's just up and coming and it's bigger and bigger and it's everywhere. So we'll just see where this plays out. So two you talked earlier about we were touching on like addiction transfers. It's like you put down one and then maybe you stop drinking and then you pick up food or you know I'm going to have, I can't drink, so I'll have dessert, and then it turns into something like bigger and the same behaviors start to be like, so like where everything gets smaller. So what are some of the most common like addiction transfers that you see in your practice?
Speaker 2:Well, food is a big one. That's huge. I see a lot of that. I see gambling. You know they'll go to that. One drug to the other. Alcohol Okay, maybe now I'm dabbling in pills just a little bit. Or now I've started to smoke instead of a pot. I see a lot of that going on. Exercise is another one, you know. Good, now I'm going to get myself healthy. I'm off the drug or the alcohol. I'm going to get myself healthy. Now I'm going to the gym seven days a week. I'm spending two hours there. Now I, along with that, I'm starting to look good. So now I'm going to change my diet and all the stuff is going out. I'm just going to put tons of protein in and I'm not. The key is that once the brain gets used to the acceleration and the high and all that euphoria, it seeks it out.
Speaker 2:What we're really doing with addicts if we treat them properly is to learn how to take that euphoria and drop it down a bit On a scale of 1 to 10, so to speak. The brain now wants an 8. But the brain will be just as happy at a 2, which is fine. We want to get back to simple pleasures. Addicts have a difficult time doing something very simple, simple pleasure without their drug of choice with them. So we want to. The training is to get that brain to slow down, not seek out all this huge, this large, this overabundance of euphoria it does not need, Because if we don't do that, then the brain says, okay, I can't drink, or I can't, what else can I do? So then we do all the rationalization. Well, I was doing that, that was terrible, I'll just do this now, or this is healthy for me now, I'll just do that. And now we have the same person taking their addiction, transferring it to something they have now rationalized and essentially they're active addicts.
Speaker 1:Yet yeah, yeah. So it's extreme and so you want to try to get to this middle road. And in that middle road I think what happens is, you know, at first it's uncomfortable because it's not familiar to a lot of people who've been living like addicted, familiar to a lot of people who've been living addicted. But when you get there and you experience the calm, the peace, the serenity, the simplicity because it's a lot of work to maintain an addiction, no matter what it is, whether you're hiding it or eating all protein or going to the gym or whatever it is so when you live in that middle road it's a really great place to be. But it doesn't seem so inviting to someone who's been living at extremes, you know, and I know that was true for me.
Speaker 1:But really now the goal for me is like to get to that middle of the road and to stay there more often, because that's where you can really enjoy your life and like see people and like eye to eye and present tense and how time becomes important and more meaningful. So there's real cause. I remember years and years ago my main goal of my life was to just like calm my mind down and to just not have it race and to just be calm. And you know, somewhere along the line in the busyness, it comes back and it's like oh no, no, how do I get back there? And you get back there by living a life in the middle, I think, if you're an addict.
Speaker 2:Well, you do. I try to help people understand that our brains learn and learning is just repetition. It's repetition, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's not this ingrained like you can't be that because you're that.
Speaker 2:No, the brain it's a retraining.
Speaker 2:Yes, talk about that a little, that's really that's really interesting to me and, I bet, to listeners, and hopeful it is. You know, I tell people. Think about it this way. You didn't just. You know, you're a kid and you were born an addict and start doing all these things Somewhere along the line. You train your brain to accept this higher level of acceleration, this action. So that should tell you that the brain can learn. Now, if the brain can learn that, why can't the brain learn to slow down and appreciate things at a more simple level? What do you have to do is give it the opportunity to learn. Yeah, that's so good.
Speaker 2:I have a friend that lives in the city and when I would visit him it would be sirens and it would be action, and let's go to this club and people everywhere. And you know, we get back to his apartment. I would say, let me just calm down. He'd come to my house and when it was time to go to bed I had to put a television in his room. This was way back in the 80s. I had to put a television in his room just for noise, because if he didn't hear the sirens and the yelling and the screaming he couldn't go to sleep.
Speaker 2:Training program we get into recovery. One of the things we're doing is retraining our brain to understand and be able to enjoy simple pleasures. You know, it's sort of like you're going to the fair and you can enjoy walking around and having a nice time and talking to people, versus the one that's got to get on that roller coaster and go frontwards and backwards and upside down. And if they didn't get on the roller coaster, how was your evening? It was okay. We just kind of walked around and did nothing. The person says it was really enjoyable. I saw so-and-so. You know, we grabbed something to eat. It was nice and calm. We had a wonderful time, went home and it was nice and easy.
Speaker 2:Yeah so to do that. Not that you have to do it all the time. You know nothing wrong with riding the roller coaster, but you shouldn't need to do it. That's the key.
Speaker 1:You shouldn't need to do it Right, right, and so before you talked about you, address the physical with your clients first. So what do you see as the physical component? That must be such a gift to your system to slow it down and to not have to live in the extremes. You're talking about health like life, longevity, all of those things Like. Doesn't that affect your health in a really positive way when you kind of take it down?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. The first part of physical I think people understand is that there is no such thing as an addiction. That is only psychological or mental. We're physical organisms. We feel euphoria in our brain. Some people can say we're going to go out tonight and I'm going to have two glasses of wine. I already know that That'll be my limit and I'm fine. Never think about that for the rest of the week.
Speaker 2:The next person goes out and has one. And you know the old story if I have one, I'm going to have a hundred. The next person goes out and has one. You know the ulcer If I have one, I'm going to have 100. So you know. So they can't have the one because their brain is not set up that way. That one will trigger the addictive response in the brain and they'll want to continue to supplement that.
Speaker 2:So it's physical. You've got to understand that and you're not going to think your way out of it. You know there's a plan. Aa has a plan. It does address the physical. It doesn't do it directly, but everything it does in that slow down teach your brain people, places and things, all that's designed to slow neurology down. It wasn't the Bill W's intent. However, when you break it down in terms of what happened. That's what's going on on the physical level and we want people to understand that. That's why you say I think you said it was alcohol that you were into If you and I went out for the evening, I could have one, two drinks and I'd be OK If you had the one. We don't know what's happening now, maybe you were lucky.
Speaker 2:Maybe you're fortunate. All the sponsors said help me, I just screwed up. Or it's a home, and on the way home you stop at the liquor store and purchase a bottle. We don't know what's going to happen with you. That's the neurology that you have that you're born with, it wasn't.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah, there's so much good stuff. I really I'm enjoying this conversation. There's so much truth to everything you're saying, yeah. So what would you say to people who are listening? Your last book.
Speaker 2:Jessica, when I started doing this I wanted to help people empower themselves from the inside that's my way of doing things and get to a point of balance. We're physical, we're intellectual, we're emotional, we're spiritual. Again, if you look at the 12-step program, it hits all four of those. We want to get those in balance, not at a high level anywhere. I always say on a scale of 1 to 10, it could be a 2 or a 10. It's irrelevant, so they're in balance. So I wanted to help people learn to do that, get their emotions down, get more clarity of thought, get their body in physical shape so it helps them, it's not a hindrance and hopefully to connect to your spirituality.
Speaker 2:That was the first book. The pandemic hit and we looked and I said all right, look at the anxiety level here. So second book was the Fix your Anxiety Handbook. Following that, we saw depression coming at the end of the pandemic. So we went with depression. Well, we saw in the country what we just the presidential election just personified the anger that we're experiencing. So that was the fourth book.
Speaker 2:But I always had this in my head that I needed to do one on addiction. I've worked so much with addiction and so much at so many levels. So the fifth book was the Fix your Addiction Handbook. Interestingly, the 12-step programs in my area of course a lot of people I know in the area I've treated came back and said I bought the book. Do you mind if I take this to my meeting? Please do. And now the 12-steppers in my area are starting to use this as supplemental reading, which is really nice to hear. The goal of that book is really to help people understand that this is something that if you're willing to work with there are ways to do that. There's an abundance of treatment out there if you're willing to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, just in talking to you I could tell that I mean well, because you have been in this for so many years and worked with so many people. If someone is working in 12-step and wants to supplement with this if they're not going to a therapist, if they're not able to go to a therapist because of expenses or this or that, like purchase this series, you know, walk through it. It's not like it was written. You know, when I was reading the excerpts I was so it really resonated with me. It spoke to me because of the directness of it and the actions. And I love the family component, like we had talked about earlier, because everyone's living in that and it helps them kind of navigate through that.
Speaker 2:If any advice I give to people is don't play with recovery. There is no such thing as your version of recovery. Everyone likes to think that way. Recovery in my, the way I teach it and the way I counsel is an all or nothing proposition. You know it's just. You can't. You can't get your defenses and deny this and rationalize that and it doesn't work. You've got to be brutally honest with yourself and the people that are helping you. If you're willing to say, okay, it's done. I am putting myself into this, yes, I know what I'm signing up for. It's going to get hard. However, I'm not alone and every step of the way, as hard as it gets, there's going to be that person there who is going to help me. You don't have to have a counselor right away. There are support groups everywhere for all the addictions. They're online Exactly. There are 12-step programs. There are free ways to do this and people just waiting to wrap their arms around you but you got to give them the chance.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right. Well, it was such a pleasure having you on today. So much good information. Where can people buy the book and where can they find you during the week?
Speaker 2:The best place for both of that is my website. It's my name fosteragerocom and, as you said, excerpts from the books are there. You can see what they're like. Everything about the books myself, the appearances, all those things, they're all there and there's a contact link and I do get back to people if they contact.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. Thank you so much for being here and sharing all of that information to listeners.
Speaker 2:It has been a pleasure Thanks.